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I am a fore-overman, and have been 14 years under this company. Eleven of these years I have been fore-overman, one-and-a-half back-overman, and one-and-a-half a deputy. This makes fourteen years. I was down the pit at 11 o'clock in the forenoon on the 17th. I went in at 4 o'clock and came out at 11. I was in the fore shift. I was in the Busty seam from 4 o'clock to 6 o'clock. I went into the Croxdale and Coldstream districts. I examined the whole face round, and the waste as well, and I found no trace of gas.

(Mr. Edge.) You have been down since the accident? — Yes.

You know where Faulkner and the other man fired the shot. Was there any damage done to the timber? — Not particularly about there.

Do you know what distance the drill-hole was from the rolley-way? — Something like 2½ yards, I should say.

It was on the rolley-way side of the doors? — Yes. The refuge hole.

A juryman wants to know the object of having doors? — To separate the two currents of air. The air goes in one way and comes out the other.

You know Faulkner and Coldwell ; where they both good experienced men? — Yes, both of them had licenses.

You have never found any man in the pit with a pipe in his possession? — No, sir, but after the explosion there was a pipe found in a man's waistcoat pocket. I was there and I picked it up.

What district was he in? — He was in the Sunderland Bridge-way.

Was he out by the caution board? — Yes, he was.

Had he any tobacco with him? — Yes, both tobacco and pipe.

(The Coroner.) Was the pipe charged with tobacco? — I cannot say.

What was the name of the man? — Adam Rutter. He was a stone-man.

(The Coroner.) It is a very common thing for pitmen to smoke while going to the pit, and also in going home from the pit?

(Witness.) Oh, yes, sir, some are in the habit of doing so.

(Mr. Edge.) Was the pipe found in the waistcoat pocket lying at some distance from the man? — It was beside the pick, chucked out of the pocket and lying beside his own clothes.

(The Coroner.) Where was it found? — In one of the refuge holes, where the men generally put their clothes off and get their "bait".

(Mr. Edge.) When you left the pit did you consider it safe? — I did, sir.

(Mr. Bowey.) Did you find this pipe? — Michael Mahadey took it from him in the presence of myself.

Had it been smoked? — I did not examine it.

Will Michael Mahadey be called?

(Mr. Edge.) It is not of the slightest importance.

(Mr. Bowey.) Has it any bearing upon the explosion.

(Mr. Edge.) I do not think so.

(Mr. Bowey.) Then I will leave the pipe alone. (To the Witness.) Have you charge of this Brockwell seam? — Yes, from the east side.

Of course you understand this plan? — Oh, yes.

Will you explain what you did in this Brockwell seam.

Just say where you went, if you please?

(Witness, approaching the map.) I went in at the shaft here, and examined right in. I examined the stoppings to see if the ventilation was going right. I went to Croxdale, and went along the main intake to Whin Dyke, turned to the right and went down eight pillars to the landing, and then I turned to the left. I went down seven pillars there (Croxdale) towards the broken, and examined each place there. I then returned and went into the waste. I travelled through this waste, and went down from Croxdale to Coldstreams and examined all these places there on both sides. Then I came away and examined all these places her (Coldstream brokens). Then I came up the landing and went down the main way, and I saw no indication of gas.

(Mr. Bowey.) Did you ever get any reports from Rivers? — Well I cannot say I ever got one. He generally informed me of anything that took place.

Did he ever tell you that he had found gas. Do you remember? — No, sir, I do not.

Do you know where this shot firing was? — Yes.

Did you examine the place that morning? — Yes. Right and left.

Did you examine between the door? — No, I did not examine between the doors.

Did you consider it a safe place to fire a shot between the dips and the rise? — Yes, as safe as we are here.

You did? — Yes, outside the door is as safe as firing here.

Was this a dry seam? — Yes.

Very dry? — Yes.

About the dust? — It was well laid. The waggon way had just been watered well ; a man had been on three days watering.

When was this place last watered? — On this very day I dare say.

You dare say! But was it? — Yes, it was ; he was filling the barrel when I came out-bye.

What about the timber. Is anything done to clear away the dust from the timber? — There is no dust upon the timber.

I did not ask you that. Was anything done to clear the dust from the timber? — I cannot say.

Do you remember when the dust was last cleaned away? — I cannot say.

Have you ever given any instruction for the dust to be cleared at all? — No, sir, I have not.

You spoke of men being licensed with regard to shot firing. What do you mean by licensed? — Suppose a man is licensed??????

I do not want you to suppose. —Well a man goes to Mr. Johnson and gets a license to fire shots. No man is allowed to fire shots unless he is licensed.

Is it in writing? — No, sir, it is in printing.

Are there any rules with regard to shot firing? — There are printed rules, I expect.

You expect ! Have you ever seen them? — Well, I cannot say I have ever seen them. Well, no, I have never seen them.

You are an overman? — Yes, sir.

Have you a copy of these rules as to shot firing? You say there are printed rules. I ask for them to be produced. Have you ever seen these rules? — I have, sir.

Are they on the back of the license? — I would not like to say.

Have you ever seen the license? — I know there is a license.

I ask for the license to be produced.

(Mr. Edge.) I will send for one. (License produced.)

(Mr. Edge.) It is the ordinary form of license.

(Mr. Bowey.) There is nothing on the back of it.

(Witness.) I said so.

(Mr. Bowey.) Someone said there was. If there are rules as to shot firing, who has them? — Mr. Johnson has them.

Then I will ask Mr. Johnson to produce them. Ought not instructions as to shot firing to come from you as overman? Have you not the supervision of the men who fire shots? — Not all.

Then you have some? — Yes.

I ask you again, ought not instructions to come through you? — Yes.

Did they come through you? — All inside the caution board came through me.

Who was in charge of Cauldwell and Faulkner? — Michael Rivers.

Then he ought to have known the rules? — Yes.

And he ought to have given instructions? — Just so.

Have you read these rules as to shot firing? — No, sir, I cannot say I have.

Do you think you ought to have read them? As an overman of the colliery, ought you to have read them? — Yes, sir.

Are not the deputies under your charge? — They are.

And you have to see that they perform their duties? — Yes.

And can you see that they perform their duties if you have never read the rules? — Yes.

How can you do that without reading the rules? — I was in charge of the pit.

And you never read the rules? — I said to every one of them that they had to be very careful, and whenever there is gas there must be no shots fired.

What was the distance from the separation doors and the main intake? — 8½ yards.

Then, in other words they were just 2½ yards from the main intake.

The shot fired for stone is a very powerful blast? — Oh, yes, according to what is put in.

Would not this shot be likely to shake these doors? — Oh, yes, if the charge of powder was heavy.

Would an ordinary shot charged with an ordinary charge of powder be likely to shake these doors? — Yes, it would shake them a little.

And of course it would shake the dust lying on the timber? — I do not think there was any.

But if there was any? — Yes, if there was any.

Would you naturally expect to find a small quantity of gas in that return air-way? — None.

Do you mean to say that this current, after sweeping through the workings and bringing this return air back, would not be charged with gas? — Not in any quantity.

I did not ask you that. Would you not be likely to be charged with some quantity of gas? — Decidedly so.

Do you consider that firing a shot and shaking these doors, immediately between the main intake and the return air-way, a distance of a few yards, was a safe thing, to do? — Oh, yes, it was quite safe.

As safe as this room? — Yes, as safe as this room.

The rules about shot firing. What are they like? — I cannot say I have never seen them. The men said they had a license.

Never mind the license. You said there were rules. I want to know what rules there were? — I have never seen them.

You as an overman do not know what are the rules as regards shot firing. Have you ever read any rules? — Oh, yes.

Have you read rules as to shot firing? — No.

Have you ever read the license? — Yes, before the accident ; a good bit since.

Have you ever read this form of license? — Yes.

Before the accident? — I would not like to say before the accident.

Have you read it since? — Yes.

Is this what you refer to when you speak about the rules as to shot firing? — No, it is some other.

(Mr. Bowey.) I think Mr. Johnson ought to produce them. Are they printed or in writing? — I cannot say, I have never seen them.

You said you asked Cauldwell and Faulkner if they had a license and they said "Yes," they had a license. What makes you think there are rules as to shot firing? — By the special rules.

What is there in the special rules to cause you to think so? — No one is allowed to fire shots without a license.

You say there are some rules about shot firing. What are those rules, where are they? Have you ever read them? — No.

You have charge of these deputies? — Yes.

Are there any rules as to shot firing which are not in this book? — Mr. Johnson is the man that sets the men on.

I ask you, are there any rules which relate to shot firing that are not in this book. Answer me the question? — I cannot say.

You cannot say, and you are an overman? — Yes.

(Mr. Bell.) You should know, as an overman in a responsible position, if there are any more rules than what you have in this book. Just say, yes or no? — I am an overman, but Mr. Johnson is head over all.

Give a direct answer. You know, as an overman and occupying a responsible position, if there are any other rules? — Oh, decidedly so.

Then are there any rules? — I cannot say.

(Mr. Edge.) He says he never saw any other rules.

(Mr. Bowey.) He says there are other rules. He was told of them.

(Mr. Bell.) Were Faulkner and Cauldwell under Rivers? — Yes.

Then Rivers was under you? — Yes.

They might have permission to fire shots from Rivers? — Yes, Rivers would set them to certain places where he wanted a shot fired. Rivers had charge of the night shift.

Then if Rivers said he did not examine the place who was responsible? — I was there the day before.

But I want to know what took place on the morning of the shot firing. Was there really no understanding about the shot firing? — Oh, yes. They always consult to see if all was right.

Were the men in the Shieldfield way licensed? — Yes, so I understand, but they were not under me.

Did you know that the men were going to use powder that night and morning? — Yes.

Was it perfectly safe to fire the shots beyond the caution board? — It must be safe, I fired it a month ago.

Will you tell us how you got into the broken flat? On the north side, where did you get in there?

(The witness pointed the route he took on the plan.) I passed a door on the right in the Shieldfield way.

This is marked two doors on the plan, and you say it is only one? — Yes.

We will come from the Shieldfield way and go to Sunderland Bridge way. There are a pair of doors in the grove ; what sort were they? — They were both wooden doors, and one was unlocked.

When you get into this grove there is a regulator? — Yes, there is a regulator on the east side.

Where are the doors on the Croxdale way? — It is seven pillars and the second pillar down.

It is nine pillars on the plan. Have you a door there? — Yes, two frame doors.

Are you sure one of them was not a canvas door? — Yes.

Then we will go into the Coldstream way. Is there a door in there? — Yes, a wooden door and a canvas door. The canvas door is inside the in-bye, and the wooden door is outside.

Is a sheet a proper thing to have upon your main intake? — Yes, she will go with nothing, sir.

Further down below the landing. There are two doors marked here ; were they double doors? — Yes. This is out-bye end of an old landing.

What sort of doors had you there? — There was only a single door there, a canvas door.

It is marked a double door on the plan.

Towards the crossing there are a pair of wooden doors in there? — Yes, one locked, and the other open.

Beyond the crossing there is a single canvas door? — Yes, the wooden door is taken out.

Then your ventilation depends upon a single door, a door and a sheet? — There are stoppings.

I am speaking of the opening of the doors? — There is an opening from the main plane. When she gets to the back side she splits right and left, and drives the main current right in.

Then your ventilation is depending upon a door and a sheet? — Yes.

There is not a return marked. It is all intake here.

(Witness.) This whin goes to Croxdale, pit part of it.

(Mr. Bell.) Yes, but it has to go a considerable way before it gets to Croxdale. Was there division between the two pits, Croxdale and Tudhoe? — We have a slide.

A wooden slide? — Yes.

Single or double? — Single at first, but it was doubled.

Since the explosion? — No.

How long has it been in? — I cannot say.

How long is it since you were down that way? — It is in the report book. I cannot say to a month or two.

Were you down a month before the accident? — No, I cannot say I was.

Was it single then? Come, give us some idea. You put the second slide in? — I did not put it in.

Who did? — The manager of Croxdale colliery.

You know it was in. Did he tell you? — Yes, he told me at the explosion.

Did he tell you how long it was before that he put the slide in? — Why, I had nothing to do with it. It was good for him and bad for me. It would improve the ventilation.]

(Mr. Willis.) You have told us that the Croxdale way must have been charged with a little gas? — Yes.

Was the ventilation in the whole of the workings depending upon doors in Croxdale way and doors in the Coldstream way? — Yes.

Then what would be the effect upon the Croxdale way and upon the Coldstream way if these doors had been open? — Providing that Croxdale door had been taken out there would have been a straight lead home to both places. The west side would still have gone on.

From Croxdale they put in slides without apprising you of it? — It is between Croxdale grove and our grove.

If you sent air to Croxdale through slides it would be foul air? — I could not say it would be foul air because I have not examined it.

By travelling it would get mixed with gas on the goaves and the cage of the goaves. Do you consider it was right to bring it all the way round here, depending upon canvass and single wooden doors? — Well, you know there are very few men??????

Never mind the men. You quite understand that when the air passes Croxdale way to the north landing it would be charged more or less with gas? — Yes.

It must have made a difference to Croxdale if they got their air from Tudhoe and it was polluted? — Yes.

There was a frame door and a canvass door. Was that a fit system of ventilation in these workings? — There was nothing to see, and it was good air that was travelling.

How many men had you in the Coldstream way? — Seven men in the shift.

And in the Croxdale way? — Four men, and then there were three men towards Croxdale brokens. This was seven men.

Then the air next to Croxdale, was it good? — Yes.

Always good? — Yes, we never saw anything else.

It comes round this goaf? — Yes.

Did you ever examine this goaf edge? — Yes, it is Croxdale and Coldstream goaf.

(Mr. Morley.) Was Rivers with you? — Yes.

If Rivers found gas was it his duty to come and report to you, and at the same time to make an entry in his book? — Yes.

Did he come and report it? Do you remember if he came? — Yes.

Did you examine his book? — No.

Was it your duty to examine the book? — It was Mr. Johnson's.

Did you make a report of what he said to you? — No. If I found any gas I went down and put it right.

And did you never see his book at all? — No.

Would you report to Mr. Johnson the existence of gas if Rivers told you of it? — Rivers and I were at Mr. Johnson's office. When Mr. Johnson examines Michael Rivers report book I was always present.

Have you found gas in these workings? — Yes I have found a little by the goaf edge.

(Mr. Willis.) You told me a minute ago that you never did? — Not there. I am now speaking of Croxdale sir.

Did you ever find gas in the Croxdale or Coldstreams? — No, sir, never.

(Mr. Bowey.) You reported that you travelled into the Sunderland Bridge and Coldstream brokens and found gas coming off the goaf? — Yes, at the right side of the Sunderland Bridge.

Where is the slide? — It is marked there on the plan.

(Mr. Morley having asked the witness for his report book) said : Here is a jump from the 6th to the 10th. Have you two books? — Yes.

(Mr. Morley.) Then why did you not tell us so. Here is a jump from the 6th to the 10th, and then from the 10th to the 14th. Do you say that you have two books? — Yes, I have one at the office to get signed and I have one to carry with me to change with.

And the dates are carried on alternately? — Yes.

On the 24th you report "all right, clear of gas except a little gas at the goaf edge." Where was that? — It was in the Shieldfield way.

On the 13th February you say that you travelled into the Busty seam and found all right except a fall and a little gas. Where would that be? — This is the crossing.

(Mr. Bell.) Where was the gas? — At the high side of the hitch.

Where is George Grabbin's place? — In the Shieldfield way.

Was it a broken jud? — Yes.

(Mr. Bell.) You found gas in there, did you? — Yes, a little bit.

(Mr. Morley.) On the 3rd April you report that you went into Croxdale whole and brokens, and through the waste into Sunderland Bridge ways, and found all right except a little gas coming off the roof edge in the return? — Yes.

On the 11th April you found all right except a little gas on the north side, north of the Shieldfield intake? — Yes.

(Mr. Bell.) What do you mean by finding the air mixed? — I found it mixed, but not ignitable.

What was it mixed with? — Mixed with gas.

(Mr. Edge.) Were you one of the exploring parties in the Shieldfield way? — Yes.

You found that many of these men were killed by after-damp and not by fire-damp? — Yes, after-damp.

You were asked by Mr. Bowey as to whether you examined between the doors and the stenton. This is a wooden door from the intake towards the return? — Yes.

Would the pressure of air, be from the intake towards the return? — No, to the intake.

If there was any air going from the door would it not be going from the intake towards the return? — Yes.

Is not the door next the intake a locked door? — Yes, they are all locked doors between the intake and the return.

You have told Mr. Bowey that there might be a little gas in the return along here. Do you mean gas that you could find in the lamp? — No, but there is always a small quantity of gas in the return.

(Mr. Bowey.) I want to ask you again about this license book. I do not see anything about shots in it? — No, it is a license to carry keys and to lock lamps.

I see this book commences on the 14th April. Is there any book in existence before that? — I cannot say.

Do you know whether Cauldwell and Faulkner had licenses? — Yes.

How do you know ; did you see them? — I asked them and they said they had.

(Mr. Bowey.) Is there any record of the license granted? — Yes, I think so, Mr. Johnson has it.

As regards this place where shot firing has taken place. Who gives the orders for shot firing? — Mr. Johnson gives the orders.

How was it that shot was fired without you knowing? — I cannot tell.

Might not someone else have given orders without you knowing? — Yes.

Ought you not as overman to know of this? — Yes.

Did you notice the barometer that morning when you were in? — The morning before the accident? Yes.

How was it? — I cannot say. It is a long time since.

Did you make any mention of it, or tell anyone of the state of the barometer that morning? Did you give any caution to the deputies of the state of the barometer that morning? — No, when I went down I went towards where there was no shot firing at all.

I was not asking you that question. Did you give any caution to the deputies of the state of the barometer that morning? This is a plain question.

(The Coroner.) Give a direct answer.

(Witness.) No, sir, I did not.

(Mr. Bowey.) Then you do not remember the state of the barometer that night? — No.

Do you remember that it was low? — I cannot remember till I look at this book (after inspecting the Report Book). The state of the barometer was 29.22.

At bank. Underground 29.55. Is not this low? — We have had it a good deal lower than this.

Did you think it necessary to give any instructions to the deputies as to the state of the barometer? — Not for this, though if it had been below 29 I would.

Have you ever given a caution as to the state of the barometer? — Yes.

When? — Many a time.

When was the last time? — When they have come to the house I have taken them and showed them the barometer.

Have you ever given any caution to the deputies within three months of the explosion as to the state of the barometer? — Yes, I have.

To whom? — To the fore-shift deputy that was in.

What was his name? — I think Robson—Isaac Robson.

You say you knew nothing about this shot being fired. Can you explain why it was that you did not know of it? — Well it was that simple you see.

(A Juror.) Did you ever know shot firing there before? — No, sir.

(Mr. Bell.) Have you anything to do with the west side of the pit? — No, sir.

Who is the overman in the west pit? — John Nesbitt. He is very ill, he was nearly lost as an explorer.

[After an adjournment Mr. Edge said he proposed to call some of the men who were in the pit just before the accident, but he was entirely in the hands of the gentlemen who represented the miners.

The Coroner said he was anxious to shorten the inquiry, but in the interests of both masters and men, he was anxious that it should be thorough and complete.]